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So much for the Hippocratic Oath then - first do no harm Options
Paul Barrett
#1 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 1:00:21 PM Quote
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Joined: 4/24/2013
Posts: 703
Location: Hexham
I haven't actually been turned down for Humira but I can't be approved for it either because they can't get an MRI showing inflammation in my back because I have to be on prednisolone to treat the inflammation.

So it would seem that in order to prove I qualify I have to endure agony by coming off the prednisolone to allow the inflammation to flare up so we can tick a box. Last time it flared up I nearly was hospitalised. The time before that I was in A&E. So what do I do? Go block a bed on a hospital ward? I am so angry............

It's a year since my original diagnosis and I am no further forward. In fact my symptoms are significantly worse and we still have no effective treatment plan.

As luck would have it I have an appointment with the Rheumy Consultant this afternoon. It's going to be a stormy one.........
Paul Barrett

Hexham - Northumberland - Loads of spectacular walks - all I need now are the joints to go with them! :)

Enthesitis (2012)
Ulcerative Colitis (1990)
suzanne_p
#2 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 4:37:55 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


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Joined: 8/25/2010
Posts: 1,289
Location: Buckinghamshire
Oh Paul,

not quite sure what to make of this!

isn't it up to your Rheumy Consultant to say whether you qualify for Humira .. will have to wait your next post to fully understand,

DAS Score was used for me, along with the fact i had failed on Methotrexate and Hydroxychloroquine,

i await the outcome of your appointment this afternoon with interest,

no wonder you're angry.

Suzanne
Sheila-R
#3 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 7:19:16 PM Quote
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Joined: 1/29/2010
Posts: 264
How did the appointment go Paul? Hopefully the calm after the storm?
Best wishes
Sheila
stvcoward
#4 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 8:32:05 PM Quote
Rank: Member

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Joined: 4/14/2013
Posts: 12
Location: egham surrey

hi Paul,
I had the same problem getting ritixumab, they stopped my previous meds and gave me the impression that after a few weeks I would be up and running on the new drug.
Three months later and after severe flares, having had countless conversations in which the nurse, secretary and consultant nodded in agreement at my frustration, I can now look back and say, there is light at the end of the tunnel, it might be beneficial to note down exact conversations and details of what precisely needs to be achieved in order to qualify, my nurse said the score she had reached in a face to face meeting was short by two or so points, we eventually agreed that such a minor detail could be slightly adjusted in view of my lapse of memory of just how painful some of my joints really were.
Although it sounds unbelievable you may need to delay the pred. to allow yourself to flare just enough, have a blood test done and go back on the pred. You really couldn't make it up but sometimes the mentality of the system is that ridiculous. ie: that's what the computer says.
steve.
Paul Barrett
#5 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2013 12:15:29 AM Quote
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Joined: 4/24/2013
Posts: 703
Location: Hexham
Well that was an interesting session. I managed to contain my anger enough but made it pretty plain that I was not happy. One thing I did was to revisit my diagnosis because, over the months, many conditions have been mentioned but none conclusively.

So, first bombshell - I do NOT have RA.

I am Sero Negative and have enteropothic polyenthesitis. Since I also have psoriasis there is also the possibility that my disease is psoriatic in origin, but since I have significant Ulcerative Colitis, and the treatment of psoriatic and enteropathic polyenthesistis are almost identical, they are grouped together. I also do not have reactive arthritis or ankalysing sponoloyditis (which is a relief).

As to treatment, the problem is that when I had my last flare but one the A&E put me on high dose prednisolone (40mg) which, by the time I had my MRI (one of the golden tests for Humira) all traces of the inflamation had effectively been masked by the steroid. So Humira is out for now, regardless of the clinical instincts of the team - bloody NICE protocols.

Here's the rub. My CRP and ESR are elevated. When I had my flare last week the GP took bloods and even WITH the 45mg of prednisolone, I had a CRp in the 50's. So isn't that enough of an indicator? No because CRP is non specific. OK is it my UC (same indicator) - well no because it's under control. So what's left?

I'm also told that the level of prednisolone I was put on by A&E (40mg per day reducing by 5 mg per week) was not a dose that the rheumatologists would ever use. They would have used 7.5 mg max . That's interesting in itself because the reason I had a flare last week was because I had dropped the dose from 20 to 15 mg. which was insufficient. So I appear to have an inflammation in my sacroiliac joints that cannot be seen on MRI, cannot be treated by what rheumy's would consider normal levels of prednisolone but isn't adequate enough proof of my need for Humira.

So, what are we going to do? Well Hyrdoxychlorquine is ruled out as it is contra-indicated in patients like me; and leflunomide (sp?) is out because there is not strong enough evidence of effectiveness in the sero-negative.

That leaves Azathioprine which they are going to start me on asap (hopefully a week, maybe two) which they will titrate up for 4 weeks. Then we start to reduce my prednisolone by 2.5 mg steps per week to see if we can elimimate it.

Then I will be in one of two states. Either controlled on Azathioprine (and in that case good - all I want is an effective treatment) or NOT in which case we look at Humira again when I am weaned off prednisolone. - oh and I will be in lots of pain because I cannot take NSAID's, and opioids are not as effective on nerve pain.

But this will take time. 2 weeks to start, 4 weeks to titrate, 16 weeks to reduce steroid. We are looking at 22 weeks - 5 months. That's on top of the 10 months since my initial diagnosis. And what does all the literature say? 'Successful outcomes depend on quick treatment.'

Here's the irony. These stupid protocols are imposed by NICE to save money. Clearly we can't have every person in the country with unresolved back pain put on treatments that cost $10K a year. But we could let the clinicians use clinical judgement. Meanwhile the contribution I was making to to the economy through my job is under threat. If, no, WHEN I go on long term sick leave the loss to the exchequer of my tax contributions will be more than the cost of the treatment. You could not make this stuff up.

So, I am about to celebrate the 5th month, since I was signed off work, with another 5 months ahead of me. Hm......................................

And that's not all.......... Am I even on the right forum? Confused
Paul Barrett

Hexham - Northumberland - Loads of spectacular walks - all I need now are the joints to go with them! :)

Enthesitis (2012)
Ulcerative Colitis (1990)
anne_t
#6 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2013 6:44:13 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/3/2009
Posts: 302
Location: Rainham Kent
Hi,Paul,

You couldn't make that up if you tried to. Soo sorry you are having so much
trouble. Many of us will be angry on your behalf if it helps as we've gone through
the loops and hoops and come out the other side. It's up to you to decide whether
this is the right forum. Where else do you fit ?? Its probably easier for us weak
females to burst into tears to relieve the frustrationWub Wub .Gosh I'll get
flack for that. All I can say is azothioprine worked for me for a time but
eventually got Enbrel and haven't looked back apart from cardiac and respiratory
problems, not related. Look after number 1 and keep pestering for answers
Anne
suzanne_p
#7 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2013 7:41:43 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


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Joined: 8/25/2010
Posts: 1,289
Location: Buckinghamshire
hi Paul,

really feeling awful for you here and as Anne says you couldn't make it up.

quite confused about what they say re your CRP because yes it is elevated .. but i do understand about the steroids masking it.

when i started on Humira i decided i didn't want any more steroid injections as i wanted to see how the Humira was working for me as soon as possible, also after about my 3rd steroid injection i came out in hives, not many but enough to know i had a slight reaction, but it's quite scary to see how much Steroids were prescribed for you ( as i have posted i have never been on them so no expert ) but yes that was a high dose.

are you going to speak to your GP about all this, mine is brilliant with a good knowledge of RA and i always run to him when i feel unhappy.

yes you must keep posting we want to know how things are,

hope you are getting your head around all this it's a lot to absorb and to know the way forward.

Suzanne
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